"Spitfire Vs BF-109 Due Leggende a Confronto" (Nel 1940, due aerei combatterono ad oltranza sulla Gran Bretagna. Thus was born the final version of the Bf 109, the dedicated ground-attack HA-1112-M1L “Buchon” of 1954-vintage, fitted with a, you guessed it, Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. He used this aircraft to achieve at lease two of his 9 kills in Griffon engined Spitfires to become the only Mk. J: Did you fly in a Spitfire? It was a short burst, maybe 10 shells from each cannon, but I saw the bomber explode & begin to burn. An estimated 3,000 aircraft were lost during takeoffs in which the pilot lost control. You clearly seem interested and well-read in WWII aviation, which is nice to see. The most notorious aspect of the Bf 109 was its appalling takeoff characteristics. The ‘new’ fighter was named Avia S-99, but after only a minor batch had been delivered, a warehouse fire destroyed the stored stocks of DB 605 engines. Prev; 1; 2; Next; Page 2 of 2 . Upon Israel’s declaration of independence in May 1948, the country faced a massive attack from all sides by neighboring Arab states. The aircraft served in every theater in which the Germans fought and was used by many nations allied to Germany. The Spit wasn’t faultless in this respect either, but the 109 was a real killer. Fu una lotta che doveva durare cinque anni, estendendosi ai campi di battaglia At 300 yards I opened with the 30’s. The Mk.V entered service in February 1941 and had a 1,450-bhp Merlin 45. In the process, horsepower was increased from the prototype’s 695-hp Rolls- Royce Merlin to the 2,030-hp Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine in the Bf 109K. Not true, G-10 was easier to handle than G-6. The large paddle-bladed propeller caused a huge amount of torque, making the aircraft extremely difficult to handle on take-off and landing. As the Bf 109G had been produced in the country during the German occupation, it was a natural choice. After the war, the Czechoslovak aircraft industry had to find a way to supply the country’s reborn air force with fighters. THE WAR OF THE SPANISH SUCCESSION – FRANCE, Prokhorovka – the unknown clash of the Great Patriotic War. Der starke Haubenrahmen der Messerschmitt war in dieser Hinsicht nachteilig. as to 30 mm, the problem was isolated regarding jams, the shells were of poor construction often due to slave labor, after this was discovered, a major fix was put in & this largely addressed this issue, as to distance, Goerg Peter Eder says 300 yards here. It was both cheaper and faster to build than the Spitfire (those beatiful eliptical wings were a real problem when it came to mass production). Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. The Mk.II was fitted with a 1,140-bhp Merlin XII. Almost one in five 109s produced were written off in landing accidents, with an associated loss of pilots. Following this, you have posted ten additional comments on this thread. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! In November 1944, the Air Fighting Development Unit had recommended that, because of the instability of the first F.21s, not only should the mark be withdrawn from service immediately but no more effort should be made to perpetuate the Spitfire family. By the end of the war, there were many well trained, experienced Allied fighter pilots shooting down young Germans pilots with glider training and little fuel or ammo to defend themselves. TAS 906km/h@5.8km This puts the question of greatness into perspective. Bf-109 F4-G-2 Vs Spit Vb/c Combine energy fighting with aggressive unexpected maneuvers to try to cut in to spitfires angles. As the war progressed and new Allied fighters such as the Soviet Yak-3 and U.S. North American P-51 were introduced, it became increasingly difficult for the Bf 109 to compete on equal terms. Assuming both the pilots are at the same skill level, both planes are at their final pre-1946 model, and fully upgraded. Only a handful of British pilots ever had a chance to fly the Me109. Give me legitimate facts. Compared to the Bf 109, the Spitfire had a more straightforward development, with the engine forever associated with the aircraft being the Rolls-Royce Merlin. Shmo11000 5 Posted June 14, 2016. The Huns, knowing the Spits quality in dogfight, carefully avoided taking them on, and the poor Spits had neither the speed nor the range to force the new German fighters to fight. ( Log Out / Clostermann mentioned the MK 9 had not enough power, the problem was, they didn’t have a great solution to this problem, Tempest aside, it was a problem that didn’t get an adequate solution. I suspect a few might have wished it would be built is numbers. The engines of the aircrafts deserve a closer study, as these played an integral part in the development of both series. Extremely few front-line aircraft stayed in production throughout the Second World War, and both the Spitfire and the Bf 109 belong to this exclusive club. G-10 elevator travel different than G-6, this means more bang for the buck when one pulls on the stick. I immediately engaged my opponent in an old-fashioned dogfight scissors. G-2 British tested at 467 mph in dive, here we have 560 mph TAS from tall wood tail Roland. It had high explosive power, and when you hit an enemy aircraft that was “good night.”. And now for some out-of-schedule aviation geekiness: Yesterday I encoutnered an off-hand comment about whether the Spitfire or the Messerschmitt (understood to be the Bf 109) was the superior fighter. Zu den wichtigen Kriterien eines Jägers gehören die Sichtverhältnisse für den Piloten. Aún se discute qué aparato de caza fue mejor: el Messerschmitt BF-109 o el Supermarine Spitfire. The late-mark Spitfires certainly had lost some of the crisp handling of the earlier marks, but the same holds true for the Bf 109 as well. [79], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarin … al_history. Change ). The internet has many different aviation related pages, I am sure you will find a suitable one if you look around. Constable and Toliver, 1977. Also flettners began to appear on K-4making rolls easier, wider wheel base make takeoff & landings easier, wood propeller makes takeoffs also easier. By mid-42 a further upgraded version of the DB 600-series had been launched in the form of the DB 605. Attrition of quality pilots turned the tide in the air as much as any evolution of fighter design. Gunther Rall, in Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe, ( Log Out / Dive also was one way the 109 did better than Spit in late war development. The armament consisted of two 20 mm cannons backed up by two heavy .50 calibre machine guns (12,7 mm), and for ground attack up to 450 kg of bombs could be carried. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. O accedi con uno di questi servizi. Accordling to Ludwig Bölkow as quoted in the above book, the Me 109K had a reduced ground angle to improve handling, indicated as 12 degrees in one drawing and as 11.9 degrees in another. This mean you had to aim very carefully, but when you did, our excellent ammunition got the job done. Jeffrey Quill commented that “The AFDU were quite right to criticise the handling of the Mark 21. During the late-war years the Spitfire also held the edge, with the Mk IX being a finer plane than the Bf 109G/K, which were starting to show signs of the airframe not being able to absorb the vast increases in power while maintaining the fine handling in the same way the Spitfire could. Accedi con Facebook. There is a reason that we today have fighters flying at supersonic speeds instead of biplanes which feature far better maneuverability. Now there was 1 experimental Spit that hit 600 mph in a dive, it was a writ off afterwards, wings bent fuselage wrecked. Beaumont said Lall Spits dangerous past 4-450 mph, Versuchs-Bericht Nr 109 05 E 43 – Date 15.4.43 Griffon MK 24 was anything but the finest, pilots that flew Griffons hated em. XII ace. Photo-reconnaissance Spitfires were stripped of nonessential equipment and received a highly polished paint finish. One of the major problems was that the young state lacked any kind of combat aircraft, and due to an arms embargo, acquiring them proved difficult. Although the plane was outdated as a fighter by this time, the Spanish Air Force decided that an improved version could be useful in counter-insurgency operations in their North African colonies. i am a huge 109 fan and by far my favorite plane of the second world war. XIV for the first time Johnnie Johnson said that it was a nice and fast aeroplane”). http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~gmturner/aircraft/spitfire_xii/spitfire_xii.htm, http://thegreatcanadianmodelbuildersweb … 9-k-4.html. http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal11/10801-10900/gal10810-Spitfire-Ulgur/00.shtm, http://www.thefullwiki.org/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin_powered_variants), Corporal Frisk – Half a decade on – Corporal Frisk. Shmo11000. Nevertheless, in the hands of a capable pilot it remained a dangerous weapon until the end of the war. ( Log Out / As a fighter, the diminutive craft flew fast and maneuvered well, features that helped secure German air superiority at the start of World War II. Some people ask me this question in the same context and they seem quite surprised when I tell them that there were 22 marks of Spitfires in service between 1940 and 1945 and I flew every one of them. So one must understand operational Spits were not the same thing at all. No 91 Sqn. Also please don't come on here saying AMERICA/ BRITAIN IS BEST BLARGHHHH SPITFIRE. Let’s take it from the beginning: Is your argument that the increased power was absorbed better by the Bf 109 than by the Spitfire, and that the fact that earlier mark Spitfires had better handling characteristics than late-mark ones made them superior fighters? In der Spitfire saß er etwas weiter hinten über dem Flügel als in der Bf 109. By Shmo11000, June 14, 2016 in Air Battles. According to Radinger/Otto, “Me 109”, Bölkow’s design office for that consisted of 140 heads, including the original Me 109 chief designer Richard Bauer, 10 experienced Me 109 design engineers, and the Me 109 series production office. SPITFIRE Vs 109 By David Isby Published by Little, Brown in London Available now from Amazon The British Supermarine Spitfire and the German Messerschmitt Bf 109 shaped the course of the Second World War. A number of performance improvements were made during 1940, including the use of 100-octane fuel. F8F vs Zero Prev Next . Mk 24, good fighter bomber, new tail made aiming much better. http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/art … s/#109hard. Focke Wulf 190 A8 flown by Klaus Plasa chasing a Supermarine Spitfire Mk.18 flown by Rob Davies. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. The Mk.II was fitted with a 1,140-bhp Merlin XII. both of them became difficult to control laterally in roll about 400mph. Now, I highly value open discussion, and discussion include people voicing different opinions. In the early months of the war, it reigned supreme over the battlefield until it met its match in the Supermarine Spitfire. And it did this flown by a Jewish pilot, who had shot down two Bf 109’s while flying for the US Army Air Force during the Second World War. Il Supermarine Spitfire e il Messerschmitt Bf 109, pur nelle loro moltissime varianti, furono unici. Learn how your comment data is processed. Mk 12, To me this was the end of the line, the power had outgrown the airframe. The Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force). http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal11/10801-10900/gal10810-Spitfire-Ulgur/00.shtm, Yes, the ‘Frankenfire’ was one of the weirder things to come out of the war. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. This would then power the two final versions of the Bf 109, namely the Bf 109G ‘Gustav’ and the Bf 109K ‘Kurfürst’. Im Geg… It also makes power faster — it spins up right away. http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/i … 23107.html, G-14 had enlarged rudder pedals and unbalanced elevators for better dive pulkllout. The Bf 109E had heavier armament, and a slightly higher top speed, but the thin wing discouraged pilots from taking the aircraft ‘to the limit’ in dogfights, as overstressing the wings could have fatal consequences. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. Messerschmitt Bf 109: Pt. http://www.thefullwiki.org/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin_powered_variants). as to 13 mm exploding rounds, Rall makes comment here; “our excellent ammunition got the job done. "Spitfire Vs BF-109 Due Leggende a Confronto" (Nel 1940, due aerei combatterono ad oltranza sulla Gran Bretagna. A new engine had to be found if production was to continue. it was part of the major production streamlining and overall redesign effort that finally lead to the Me 109K. Its only real fault was a relative lack of range on internal fuel (approximately 490 miles for a Mk.1, 660 miles for a Mk.VIII/IX with fuselage tank). the Spitfire IXB was supreme, and undoubtedly the best mark of Spitfire produced, despite later and more powerful versions. A 13./JG 27 Bf 109 K-4 Wk. This was solved when it was decided to mate the Jumo 211F engine and propeller used by the Heinkel He 111 to the airframe of the Bf 109G, a decision based more on availability than any finer points of engineering. Better sustained turn & dive pullout. Although it was the favorite mount of many top German aces, Allied pilots who flew test versions had mixed feelings. The Spitfire LF Vb with a 1,580-bhp Merlin 50M redressed the performance balance at low altitude at the expense of performance above 12,000 feet, and a much higher rate of roll was achieved by removing the detachable wing tips. If maneuverability was the deciding factor for if a fighter is better, this comparison would have been won by the Fokker Dr.1/Sopwith Triplane. The Spitfire first flew in March 1936. Which variant of the plane each pilot was flying, was one the best Spit made and the other a bomber interceptor. Only four years later, the Merlin 60-series (61, 63 and 66) gave Spitfires of the marks VIII, IX and XVI some 1280 kW of power, for a top speed in excess of 650 km/h. No Spit 9 was too slow, they had to move on, but it’s replacement, the Griffon was not good in handling. “managed to shoot down (to?). Just how it was. There is no doubt that the post-war Griffon-powered Spitfires in the form of the land-based F.Mk. This is a matter of debate that arises any time aircraft aficionados gather, but it’s Saturday, and I’m slightly bored, so I feel for writing something lighter. Wheels doors added, gun bumps smoothed over, radiator bypass reduced for better speed, the list goes on & on. Your email address will not be published. The solution arrived in the form of Seafury after the war. Pierre Clostermann… For the comparison of cannons, the destructive power of the 30 mm cannon is undisputable, but the large calibre combined with short barrel meant that the bullet drop was a real issue, especially together with the slow(er) rate of fire. From November 1940, all Spitfires were retrofitted with metal ailerons that increased the roll rate at high speed. Herein lays the true remarkability of the aircrafts, the fact that they could take on ever larger amounts of power, and still maintain their fighting capability. “In the process, horsepower was increased from the prototype’s 695-hp Rolls- Royce Merlin to the 2,030-hp Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine in the Bf 109K.”. 2. They used stuff from American & German fighters, laminar flow wing, & raised rudder pedals & angled seat like ME 109 & chains & cable replaced from stick to ailerons like FW 190, these plane’s didn’t work out, but the attempt was made. Permalink. XI: Mach .89 in dive. Salve a tutti, voglio porre alcune domande a proposito di aerei della WWII (Spitfire e bf 109). How was (I to know this was 2 plus yrs old? . Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. This powered the prototype (as well as the early Spitfire Mk I in the Battle of Britain), and in refined form it powered the Mk VIII that roamed the skies of Burma in 1945. In the early pre-war versions of the Bf 109 this was then replaced with a Jumo 210 V-12 engine (Jumo standing for Junkers Motoren), but by the time the war broke out the E-version of the Bf 109 had introduced the excellent Daimler-Benz DB 601. I saw strikes on my opponent’s engine cowl just before he rolled over and bailed out about ten miles south of Al Arish. Same goes vice versa for the Luftwaffe fans. Instead, I hope you opt for the way forward as described above, as I am sure a longer coherent defence of the Bf 109 from you would be interesting reading. I politely pointed out that spamming a two year old post with comments is not considered proper internet etiquette. The Messerschmitt prototype flew with a rather unlikely powersource, namely a British-made Rolls-Royce Kestrel. Study the plane and the pilot if possible, but shoot down the pilot was the goal. It served in every theater during World War II and fought with distinction during the defense of Malta. By Allied standards, the control harmony was poor, a problem that was amplified by the inexplicable lack of a rudder-trimming device. However the spitfire by the end of the war were far superior to the bf-109’s. These days historians always go by the word of retired personnel who always claim that Spitfires are capable of 450mph in a dive. Finnish blogger in reserve, defence and national security. None the less still an amazing airplane. The Kurfürst was far from the finest, with most pilots (and historians) usually ranking the Friedrich as the most well-balanced of the lot. Ernst-Georg Altnorthoff, at Achmer after suffering damage during the 21 March 1945 air raid. That’s what its design speed was, but its actual capability was limited to 400 because the airframe went solid at 400. There are a few more upgrades that went into K-4 that have no sources that I have even seen, rebalanced ailerons & all steel slats, but the K-4 was not just a G-6 with more is the point. The lack of resources and the need for more weapons for the German forces prevented any major upgrade for the 109 instead more were built to meet the needs of the Air Force. 334 158 used by Oblt. It takes a bunch of weight off the nose and dampens the vibration so that the airplane definitely feels smoother and lighter on the controls. By contrast, the later 109’s had 13 mm machine guns with exploding bullets on 1/1/10th second delay and 30 mm cannon which was decided to be best weapon fitted to any fighter in WW 2 by Tony Williams. Fw-190 vs Bf-109 bf-109. The ability of the Spitfire’s airframe to accept progressively more powerful engines was a major factor in its continued success. Their rivalry started when they were designed at the same time in the mid-1930s. I recommend you writing an article or forum/blog post with your arguments, and then posting the link to that one as a comment. Fausto Fillipi excerpt from Me and the Gustav article. Results were impressive, and in 1937 the new Bf 109B fighter outpaced all other rivals at the International Flying Meet in Zurich, Switzerland. Italian pilot Fausto Post was not sent - check your email addresses! In that case, the basic premise is wrong. However, of the (circa) seven kills attributed to the Avia in Israeli hands, at least one is confirmed as being a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire. In fact, the Spitfire and the Bf 109 were amongst the first mature fighters to discard the biplane design in favor of the single low-mounted wing that has since dominated the world of fighter aircraft. It’s hard but I think the Spitfire MK IX was the ultimate dogfighter between the two, I have a real liking of the 109 but it did not age and improve in the same way the Spitfire did. http://www.secondworldwarforum.com/my-o … e-beamont/. Willy Messerschmitt’s bird had a rather different background, with Messerschmitt learning the trade by designing sailplanes. is it the normal custom to attack newbies? Cancel Reply. This remarkable increase in power and speed was taken even further by the late- and post-war Griffon-engined versions, in which the final version of the Spitfire, a carrier-based version named Seafire F.Mk 47 mounted a 1752 kW Rolls-Royce Griffon 88 driving a contra-rotating prop, propelling the aircraft to a top-speed of almost 730 km/h! Nice article, but the landing gear “myth” of the 109 has been busted so many times. In a weird twist of irony, the Messerschmitt won the last of countless of duels. The Spitfire was a pilot’s airplane—a very responsive aircraft with superb control harmony that gave the pilot plenty of feedback as manoeuvre limits were approached. Ironic that the prototype was powered by a British engine, considering how events transpired 5 years later. Churchill's words, 'never was so much owed by so many to so few', came to encapsulate how, in a few critical months, the entire fate of the British Empire, if not the war, hung in the balance, to be determined by a handful of pilots fighting tirelessly in the skies over Britain. An interesting point is that by the time the F.24 was delivered in 1948, the F-86 Sabre was already flying. 1. Who each pilot was, the training, experience and personality that accompanied each individual pilot. Pingback: Corporal Frisk – Half a decade on – Corporal Frisk. The chain linkage was shortened on G-10 from stick to elevators making elevator operation more effective. Here the 109 had a clear edge. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. They carried two F.24 cameras and were 10–15 mph faster than standard Spitfires. Owing to continually recurring accidents caused by wing breakages in Me 109 … “Japanese knowhow”, “German Engineering”. Created by Willy Messerschmitt and his chief engineer, Walter Rethel, the Bf 109 was the world’s most advanced fighter at the time of its first flight in September 1935. The Spitfire IX was a Spitfire VC modified to incorporate a two speed, two stage version of the Merlin engine. Steve. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Who has the edge. During the battle of Britain, it is impossible to pick one over the other. ‘I cannot recall any Battle of Britain pilot saying the Bf 109 was better than the Spitfire – and there is no shortage of such memoirs,’ Mark continues. For their homebuilt HA-1109 they therefore used French-made Hispano-Suiza 12Z, but soon a need for more power (and less torque) was evident. One factor that is seldom considered in these ‘which was best’ scenarios was ease and cost of manufacture and maintenance. There was yet another chapter in the story of the Bf 109. ( Log Out / This engine, the Merlin 61 initially, replaced the single speed, single stage Merlin 45 or 46 installed in Spitfire Vs. The reduction of elevator range of movement for the same stick travel would imply a greater mechanical advantage and therefore, a lower stick-force per G, and so at high-speed it would be easier for the pilot to apply G and, if control loads were previously limiting(as they were in the 109 and most similar aircraft),then greater G loads would be possible. In capable hands, both aircraft could more than hold their own against any aerial adversaries. This second volume continues on from part one, beginning with the Bf 109F, probably the best version of the fighter, and taking the story to … As such, future such comments will unfortunately have to be banned. ( Log Out / XIV for the first time Johnnie Johnson said that it was a nice and fast aeroplane, which wasn’t a Spitfire any longer. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. the Hispano was almost twice as long as and double the weight of the German gun; unwelcome features for wing-mounted weapons. esapekkis 2,204 Posted March 10, 2018. esapekkis. Despite the pressures for ever-increasing production, the Bf 109 went through a long series of modifications, the last production version being the Bf 109K. In parallel, a number of late-war Spitfire variants were also powered by the markedly bigger Rolls-Royce Griffon. This original German test document refers to dive tests of 109s with the tall tail. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm. Comparison of the Supermarine “Spitfire” Mk. Seems like it came down to several things. BF 109 VS Spitfire BF 109 VS Spitfire. The Aces Talk page 220.. Willy Messerschmitt began developing his benchmark fighter in 1933 once the Luftwaffe desired to substitute its Arado Ar 68 and Heinkel He 51 biplanes. Recruit; Member; 5 6 posts; 4 Report post; Posted June 14, 2016. Nr. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. The Destruction of Army Group Center, 1944. Learn how your comment data is processed. Speed counts, which is why the crisp early-mark Bf 109’s and Spitfires were replaced by heavier late-mark versions. CAPTCHA Code * Recent Posts. Although speedier than its British opponent, Bf 109Es turned somewhat slower and never achieved superiority. F-35 Lightning II vs Chengdu J-10; It seems Mermet gives in his book: The Spit 9 proved to have better manoeuverability and I was able to get into an ideal firing position. Much (too much) has been made of these different pedigrees, and how they shaped the fighters that came to be. The Messerschmitt Spitfire Hunt at the 2018 Hangar10 Fly In. Probably the most successful British fighter of World War II; placed in front-line service throughout the war. It is easy to overlook exactly how huge these improvements were. The Mg 131 was about 70% as strong as the M2 .50 with API rounds…, http://members.tele2.nl/harmstolk/gunpower.htm. Tactical comparisons with a captured Messerschmitt Bf 109E showed that the Spitfire had a much better turning circle, was generally more manoeuvrable (particularly at high speed), and that the Bf 109 had a slightly better climb below 20,000 feet and was able to accelerate faster in a dive.
Apriamo Le Porte A Cristo,
Srd-05vdc-sl-c Come Funziona,
Kingmaker Valerie Romance Dialogue,
Nomi Elfici Per Gatti,
Entrare Nell'esercito A 31 Anni,
Casa Laura Pausini Roma,
Dante Nella Musica Classica,
Il Condizionatore Consuma Piu A Caldo O A Freddo,
Gibran Il Profeta Frasi,